The Museum Doctor podcast with Leigh Stevenson

Paul: Hi Leigh, good to see you.

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Leigh: Good morning Paul. How are you?

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Paul: I'm good, how are you?

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Leigh: Very, very well, thank you.

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Paul: Good. Thanks for joining us on this podcast. you and I've known each other for many years now but for the listeners I wondered if you could start by giving us a little bit about what you've been doing during your career. you know I certainly consider you in my eyes to be the retailer of retailers when it comes to the visitor attraction sector. But maybe you could share a little bit about what you've been doing during your career to begin with.

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Leigh: Well, I started out on the high street, which I enjoyed and got fantastic training from major retailer chain in North America, high end retailer. But I realised quite quickly that my, my passion was really for the arts and my background was also in art and design etc. And I started working for the Royal Ontario Museum and that just one thing led to another. I'm very passionate about what cultural activities can do for supporting museums and promoting art, and other cultural activities to a wider public etc. And also the fact that the commercial activities really benefit the institutions when done well. So my career has been both within institutions and externally as a consultant to institutions, of all kinds, whether it's an art museum, science history, gardens, all kinds of different cultural activity driven venues. and so I'm very passionate about it and I do speak about it quite often at various events and things because I think it's an amazing career for people to support the museums and galleries and libraries and all those various cultural institutions.

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Paul: And I think it's fair to say you've done a lot of work in lots of different countries as well. So that, that will give you you know, a fairly unique perspective I guess in this world of cultural attraction, retail.

 

Leigh: Well, luckily I was very lucky. Growing up I lived in various countries, from the US to Greece to London England where I went to school for years and we travelled a lot in Europe as well as of course being born and raised in Canada originally. And so yeah I do have a desire to travel and learn about different cultural Mars around, around the planet, from the UAE to Russia way back in the old days, and just absolutely love the idea that every country has their own vernacular, their own culturals and differences and things. And that's, that's what challenges and excites me about working in this industry is that the variations in what you learn is just extraordinary.

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Paul: So given the career that you've had so far, I wondered if over the last few years you've seen any particular changes in demand for your services. Has revenue generation, for example become more of an important thing with cost of living?

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Leigh: Yes, there have been you real changes in the demand for services like mine and the expectations and outcomes of commercial activities at museums and galleries and other cultural sites, the economy, the expectations of more inclusivity and making sure that every visitor has an opportunity to engage in the commercial activities. that has become more challenging and people are more aware of value for money, etc. And so yes, those, those things have definitely affected it. But moreover this most cultural institutions now have this desire and mission to be. Ensure that they're inclusive and connecting with all types of people from every walk of life and ability, etc. And so that has added some other layers to the challenges that are facing, you know, the commercial activities at most cultural institutions. And that's a lot of what we now do is we look at ensuring that. That everything we do is very, accessible and affordable and good value for money and a very, very important part of the visitor journey to ensure that, you know, there's no disconnect with. With this experience, there. So yes, changes have happened for sure.

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Paul: And I think, based on your observation, Leigh, you know, I recall the good old days where you know, if we think of the words volume and value, I think the good old days is really focused on volume, you know, very focused on visitor numbers. And you know, all of the marketing effort was about driving audiences. And of course it still is. But there are pressures on those audiences now. So, you know, do you think you've seen maybe a shift from more of the volume type of conversation to, you know, the value that you can secure from those visitors who are coming?

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Leigh: Yes, there's been a shift, but I think in my experience that's always been a very key aspect of what I do and what I try to deliver for institution I'm working for or my clients, that the perceived value for money always has to be there, particularly in a cultural institution. Because, you know, we're, we don't want to be seen as purely commercial. It's this fine line that you have to walk between being commercially minded and being mission and vision driven and educational and disseminating information about whatever your educational programming is all about. so for me it's always been a challenge to make sure that that's what, what happens. and I make a distinction about the difference in retail, particularly, where there are retail stores and cultural institutions, where there are people that I call shoppers as opposed to buyers who do not edit well enough for their, their visitors. And the connection is lost between what the visitor has just experienced in them in the institution and what they're offered within the commercial area. And I think that's where it's so important to stay on, on mission and vision, and not go off purely down the commercial road. And I think more and more that is the case that there are, there are more excellent retailers out there in the, in the cultural world who are really walking that talk and, and not just out there, you know, selling the least expensive plasticuff. Often all of those sustainable issues that are now coming into play are becoming more and more important as well that the consumer is expecting when they come in. So, so that aspect is changing the retail, experience, enormously.

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Paul: So given I know you're very busy with clients and often in different countries simultaneously, are there sort of common challenges that you encounter with new clients or do they tend to be quite different?

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Leigh: Everyone's different. the reason that I do what I do is because there are always challenges and every client and every collection or institution is like a PhD for me in immersing myself in whatever it is their culture is, their collection, their mission and vision. so that's the part that I, I really love and get excited about. And when you talk about different countries. Absolutely. you know the UAE has all kinds of interesting challenges and cultural differences from even colour palettes from say Portugal to Sweden. The colour palettes are completely different. and you know, the sensitivities with, you know, creating derived product etceter, they're huge from country to country. So it's challenging and wonderful at the same time. And you know, it's just even things like the light of the Mediterranean changes the colour padle to the cold countries in the north like Canada etc. So and those are very obvious simple ones but they're ones that go much deeper that you have to really understand. And I always talk to my clients about the fact that you can't. You are the keepers of the collection and the art and the integrity of that art. So a museum commercial activity should never ever demean or make fun of art within the collection. I feel, I think although we all know humour sells very well, it's not the role of a museum shop to you know, take the mickey, out of a work of art or an artist. So I shy away from that kind of product in what I promote with my clients etc. because I do think we have to from reproduction values right through to the product you create with, different art etc. Is so critical to get it appropriate and not to do a sort of cheap take on, on anything that you spend the time to do it.

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Paul: Well, yeah, it is, there is a place for cheap but you know, not necessarily in the cultural sector. and actually you know, I recall conversations we've had in the past, where you talk about good, better, best. Could you maybe share some thinking on that?

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Leigh: Yes, I think in, in this cultural enterprise world, I call it schizophrenic retailing really because of my high street experience where you really know your customer types, you, you, you have your brand values and you go for a certain segment of the market. Museums and galleries and other cultural sites aren't like that. We have. Anybody can walk through the door. there are people with, you know, real in depth knowledge and experience and expertise in different curatorial areas and you need to address those as well as school groups and large families with maybe not a huge disposable income. So to set your price structure the way you would on the high street in a museum shop is inappropriate because I really believe that anybody who walks through your door should be able to afford something meaningful in the commercial activities within an institution. Whether that's in the cafes or in the shops or you know, bookstores, etc. It really must be accessible at every level because you know, making product that's meaningful for children, they're the customers and the visitors and the members of the future. And you really want to stimulate and engage that. You do not want to alienate people by dictating a certain price level within your retail and commercial activities.

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Paul: Mhm, that makes so much sense. just thinking about those listening who have retail operation within the venue, I wondered if you, you could share maybe some practical things or quick wins that listeners could maybe try in their own venues.

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Leigh: I think you know, one of the key things in retail, commercial and commercial activities is really understanding the mission and vision of your institution first and making sure that you have guidelines and sort of guard rails to keep your buying on point, to make sure that there's a tangible connection with everything you buy and bring into the store. We know some of them can be a little tenuous but there should be a rationale. It's not and I mentioned earlier, I think that there's a difference between a professional buyer and what I call a professional shopper. And that is that you really focus in on the best of the best and what you want your to show the visitors when they come into your shop and not have this whole scatter gun approach which isn't good retailing anyway because it confuses the customer quite often to have too much choice. So really try to, to focus in that. And KPIs, the key performance indicators are vital. If you're not watching those scrupulously and understanding where your business is coming from and the results, and have that data and use it weekly, daily writt, you know, monthly, then you're, you're not going to have good discipline with, with your business. So making sure that your spend per visitor, your sku counts in particular, are appropriate and not overblown. Because a lot of what I do, I run into places where there's way too much inventory, you know, less than a one stock turn a year, etc. Those, those are things that get you into trouble. So making sure that you're watching all your data very carefully with a really good EPOS system with a good dashboard which are no longer costly to have. And I'm surprised at how few institutions really have decent EPOS systems that allow them to be successful because they are very good now with dashboards and showing you where you might be getting into trouble with your, your buying, with your inventory, etc. So that's one thing, but and also for food services and those areas to understand the, what your visitor is seeing out in the marketplace. So environmental scans, to make sure that you're seeing what your customers are seeing from the point of view of menus and pricing etc. And that they're appropriate for the type of visitor you have and the, in the institution that you are. and also I think understanding the vagaries of attendance in museums and galleries, etc, it's not like the high street where you can predict relatively clearly what your footfall will be at certain times of the year. Whether it's Christmas. With museums and exhibitions, it changes radically from one month, the next, from one year to the other. So having the attendance forecast as part of your planning and your buying and etc. Is really vital. whether it's in the food services or in the retail. To know when you're going to get huge busloads of students, when you're going to get a major exhibition or other types of activities that are going on in the museum, it's really critical to know what those attendance projections are. and also just to be really disciplined about you're buying and your inventory and managing like again, I'll repeat skew count because that's often where a lot of people get into trouble. They have way too many items. you know, three to four SKUs per shelf is kind of the rule of thumb and so that's good. In the past a lot of institutions used to get into trouble with product development because the quantities used to be very high. But nowadays the quantities have really improved and allow people to test product development. So I would say test things before you launch into bigger, inventory investments, etc.

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Paul: Just thinking about sourcing, Have you seen a shift, from sort of a global sense of buying to more local, using local artists, artisans, local product. Has that been a shift or has that always kind of been there?

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Leigh: It's a big shift and a big desire. There's always been some of that of course, and I'VE always believed that museum shops should be, an opportunity in, a catalyst to promote emerging talent, which actually in many cases could be the parts of the collections of the future. But the big challenge there is that you may be competing with the artist or maker in your own region or area, price wise, et cetera, and you and also other retailers who would, may be carrying the same local artists, et cetera. So what I try to do is engage with makers and artists in the community to create exclusive product for the museum shop that is based on a, collaboration with those artists. Because then you have something exclusive that is, is, you know, based on something to do with your collection or your museum or gallery. and you're not competing with that maker in your same region because it's something you have of your own, which is a much better way to do it because, what you don't want to get known for is going to a craft fair or an art fair and being able to buy that same thing that you're selling in your shop for much, you know, for less money because there's no markup on it, etc. So it's challenging, but it is, definitely an important, very important and more so as we talk about, air miles and you know, sustainabilityability of materials and etc. And yes, that's a much bigger, area of concern for most museums and galleries I work with. So it is challenging but it is very, very worthwhile doing. And as I say, collaboration is the way to go, as opposed to competing with the craftperson or the artist, directly in your region.

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Paul: and as you said earlier about international differences, I guess if you are working with local suppliers then, you know, there is a much greater likelihood that things like the colour palette and the taste points and the reference points will be so much closer, I guess, than if you're sourcing globally.

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Leigh: Well, it's just there are very different purchasing habits too, in different countries and things that, do well, say in the uk, won't do well in Germany, even though it's a commodity that you would think would be more universal, there are definitely very different, aspects of that. and also, you know, the environmental aspects of what we do now, if we can source local materials as opposed to importing, one of the challenges right now is that many of the blanks for product development come from, China. And we've seen a lot of pushback from not only the institutions but from customers as well. you know, hoping that they could get, for instance a mug that was actually made in the country that you're working in as opposed to bringing in blanks and just decorating them in a country. right now packaging in particular, trying to source paper packaging for gift shops et cetera that's not made in China, in North America is very diffic to source. So yeah, so there are lots of challenges ahead. and depending on what happens with elections and difficulties around the globe, this will get more and more challenging for sure.